Talk:Freak the Freak Out (episode)/@comment-173.76.21.181-20101026212753/@comment-71.183.212.140-20101030030922

“Who's 'bitching and complaining'?”

Uhm...you guys are?

“People give real reasons they don't like Tori; you just don't accept them and view her differently.”

Doesn't mean they are GOOD reasons. They could be REAL and dumb. And frankly a lot of them are. Like watching a show about a character you hate. People tend to AVOID watching things they don't like. You guys don't seem to follow that concept. Just stating an observation.

“You give real reasons you don't like Jade; people who do don't accept those because we view her differently. They're flip sides of the same coin.”

Again Jade is a supporting character. And frankly a replacable one. Replace her with another stock generic mean girl and you'd have the same effect. The difference is that Jade is only a small fraction of the entire show. However the MAIN character is pretty much the show in general. Hating her yet continuing to watch the program is pretty pointless. Supporting characters being favored or not.

“I don't like Tori. I watch VicTORious”

And you are well within your right to do so. No matter how pointless it is. Again watching a show about a character you don't like is silly. It would be like being forced to eat a burito that tastes crappy only because you enjoy the flour tortilla.

“She makes me roll my eyes sometimes, and the supporting characters are, in my opinion, better.”

Again well within your right to do so. Still not a very good reason in my eyes because the supporting character are small in comparison. But if you feel that way, then whatev...

“Just like they don't have more appeal than any other shows' in your opinion.”

Yeah but I don't watch shows if the main character or the main plot is something I don't like. It makes no sense because I would constantly hate it. Why would you then watch a show about a character you dislike? Because of a few miniscule characters that I found somewhat appealing? Not a good reason in my eyes.

“Seriously, you can't say that stuff like you're stating true fact. It's just what you think, just like my reasoning.”

I never stated stuff like I was stating a fact. I asked why watch the show if the main part of the show is something you hate? And in my opinion It makes no sense to do so. If you are gonna watch it, then it would be in the best interest for your own entertainment to at least LIKE the main character enough to enjoy the show. You're basically saying you hate the show but only watch for the small characters? Thats like hating an entire meal yet only eating it for the after dinner mints. Again people tend to stay away from things they don't like. And if 90 percent of this show is something you find annoying, then it would be in your best interest to not watch it. It's common sense really.

“I'm going to continue watching the show despite not being a Tori fan.”

Pretty pointless if you ask me.

“Just because she takes up a large portion of it doesn't make her immune from criticism;”

There is a big difference between criticism and insulting. What YOU guys do is insulting. Criticism is more or less a discussion on improvement as to saying “I hate tori” or what not is for the most part just an insult. And thats fine if you insult her. But if you're that unhappy then you really should watch something else. I won't stop you from watching it. I just think it's stupid to continue to bitch about her when she takes up 90 percent of the show.

Again I know a lot of iCarly fans who like Sam more than Carly, but most of them at least LIKE the namesake character enough to continue to watch the show.

And I'm not talking about criticism here. I'm talking about you guys watching something you hate. I made that pretty clear in the beginning.

“and because I enjoy other characters, and occasionally her interactions with them, I keep watching.”

Once again you are within your right to do so. Yet it's only a small part and frankly I don't see it as enough to watch it if I were you.

“I'm sorry, but your argument seems to be 'if you don't like Tori, stop watching the show or stop complaining about her.' “

Yeah. What's wrong with that? If 70 or 80 percent of the show is something you don;'t like...I don't see how the marginal 30 or 30 percent of what you DO like will make it enjoyable. You told me you don't like Tori. Ok fine, the way I see it is that she's the main character. She's gonna be in most of the show. SO then most of what you don't like will out weigh what you do like. The best idea then for you guys is to turn off the TV and watch something else.

Once again I turn to my food analogy. If you ate a ton of food you hate only because you enjoy the after dinner mint you get at the end, then you're gonna have a negative experience, and from what you guys talk about you are. Otherwise there wouldn't be so much complaining about her...dur?

“I know some people have posted comments about Tori and why she dipleases them.”

Yeah I know. I've seen it to. A lot of it doesn't make sense. And it doesn't.

“But you've done the same for Jade.”

Yeah...but I also said Jade was needed on the show and she was also a good antagonist to Tori's character.

“Is that more acceptable because she's only supporting character?”

I wouldn't say no exactly. But she's a smaller fraction of the show as a whole. You can take her out and replace her with another stock mean girl. You can do the same to Tori but then...it would be a different show. Fact is, as stock as TORI is, its still HER show. Without her, there would be NO Victorious. And I'm not saying that to be mean. I literally mean it. No Tori Vega means no VicTORIous. It would be something

“It doesn't bug me when the comments from either side are reasonable and not rude. Otherwise... eye roll and move on.” I explained this before. There is a difference between rudeness and simply stating what is. You can';t say what I say isn't reasonable because what I say for this part has to DO with reason. If 90 percent of something you watch is negative, then it wouldn't make sense to watch said program. It doesn't make sense to watching something about someone you hate. IF you hate Super Mario brothers, then you wouldn't play the Mario games now would you? That's just silly.

“Like that. That 'common sense guys' at the end, where you're telling people to have common sense when they don't agree with your opinion about the show's supporting characters? That's rude.”

No that's candor. Rude would be something like “You guys suck for hating Tori” or “You're all a bunch of losers if you dislike her”. I accept your dislike for the main character and I am ok with it. I am simply stating that people don't watch what they don't like. So watching something you hate is foolish and you only have yourself to blame for your negative experience. I'm not gonna stop you from watching it. But I'm going to respond to it. That's for sure.

Also you talk about being rude and what not, yet you slander the creator of this show's main inspiration for making these episodes? And again big difference between critique and insults...that is the most hypocritical statement I have ever seen. That is shameless my friend.

“I have an opinion and you have yours; there no common sense to be found.”

Yes there is. You hate most of what the show has to offer. Which is the main character in the main part of the show. It would make More sense to not watch it and watch something you like than complain about something you dislike when you're the cause of it. Seems logical to me. That's the way I see it at least. You apparently don't. Which is fine. I'm just gonna question it.

“I dislike Tori Vega.”

Yeah I figured as much.

“I enjoy the show VicTORious”

You don't come off sounding that way but hey...whatever.

“and will continue eyerolling to the heavens and pointing out some reasons Tori is found by myself and others to be annoying as long as I watch it.”

Again...pretty lame if you ask me. Most people who watch shows, at least like the main character. Or at least isn't BOTHERED by her enough to complain about her all the time. IF you want to continue to do so then by all means. Do so. However if this is the case then I have to say you DON'T sound like you enjoy the show because the character for the most part IS the show. These characters wouldn't have been discovered by you guys if it wasn't FOR the main character. Not to mention they wouldn't get into these adventures if it wasn't for the main character either. Seems pretty foolish to hate something that holds the show together.

“Liking MC/watching show are not mutually exclusive.”

But they do go hand in hand. And it would help to enjoy the show in the long run. AGAIN...watching something about someone you hate?...pretty pointless.